>> cenk: my friends, we're done for tonight. you can catch more "young turks" at theyoungturks.com. viewpoint is next. >> john: good evening, i'm

john fuglesang. thank you so much for joining us tonight. i guess some good things are worth waiting for. we won't know until wednesday what president obama plans to propose to stem the epidemic of gun violence in this country. white house press secretary jay carney apparently doesn't want to spoil the surprise. >> i will not get ahead of the president in terms of what his package of proposals will include. i will simply note that the president has made clear he intends to take a comprehensive approach. >> john: once again as has happened so often republicans are terrified of barack obama's package. we do have some idea of what's going to come from the white house included in that comprehensive approach. some or all of 19 measures identified by vice president's biden's working group that the president could order without having to go through congress such as sharing gun databases giving the centers for disease control the authority to do national research on guns and aggressivively enforcerring existing gun laws. some house republicans don't

sound thrilled of the exercise of executive power designed only to protect american lives. kansas congressman him huelskamp told msnbc -- >> it is troubling to me the president says if congress doesn't do what i want, i'm going to issue an executive order. people in kansas aren't look for new laws out of washington. >> john: that's a more moderate and sane g.o.p. response. the full crazy came from texas congressman steve stockman who said he will try to defund the white house or file articles of impeachment if that's what it takes to stop the president from passing laws designed only to save american lives. which is not to say that congressman stockman doesn't have supporters. no former reagan attorney ed meese said stockman would have a good case for impeachment of high crimes and misteds against this president. we're only telling you what ed meese thinks about this because smirnoff and irrelevant '80s

figures weren't available for comment. what would the president like congress to pass? jay carney was a lot more clear on that. >> there are specific legislative actions that he will continue to call on congress to take including the assault weapons ban including a measure to ban high-capacity magazine clips including an effort to close the very big loopholes in the background check system in our country. >> john: an assault weapons ban that senate majority leader harry reid said likely wouldn't pass the house. you see the president wants you to keep trying, harry. the american people do too. while you're at it, maybe congress could follow new york state's lead. because today governor andrew cuomo signed into law the toughest package of gun measures in the nation. the new law expands the state's assault weapons ban. requires background checks to buy ammunition. increase penalties for multiple

gun crimes. creates a statewide gun registration database and requires mental health professionals to report patients they believe are likely to harm themselves or others. nowhere in the list do you hear about feds coming to your house to take away your form of entertainment. but as new york congressman steve israel said today more federal and state actions are needed too. >> if those weapons can permeate new york's borders, it makes it tougher. >> john: for more, i'm now joined by a key figure in the guns debate, virginia democratic congressman bobby scott is the ranking member of the crime terrorism and homeland security subcommittee and vice chair of the gun violence prevention task force. he joins us this evening. what a pleasure to have you. >> thank you. >> john: sir you've talked about the need for a comprehensive approach to tackle gun violence. it sounds like you and the president agree. so what do you think of the proposals you've heard so far? >> the proposals haven't come out. they'll come out tomorrow. and we look forward to that.

the vice president was making recommendations and we met with him yesterday and it is clear to me he wants some evidence-based comprehensive approach, recognizing that no one initiative can solve the problem that we saw in newtown connecticut. we need a comprehensive approach. obviously it will include some gun safety, perhaps assault weapon ban but a ban on high-capacity magazines background checks, many of the gun transfers today are without any background check at all. purchases for somebody with a clean record might purchase for someone else, can't pass a background check. then you have mental health. most of the shooters in these mass killings have what seem to be fairly obvious but untreated mental health challenges. improving mental health services. crime prevention generally. we know a lot of things that can

reduce violent crime. the youth promise act i've introduced is an initiative to get young people in the right track and keep them on the right track rather than wait for them to drop out of school, join a gang, mess up, get caught and get caught in a bidding war and how much time they're going to spend, if you spend some of up-front, they wouldn't get in trouble to begin with. early identification, just like the attorney general's report, he had a blue ribbon committee that reported a couple of months ago that pointed out we need to identify children at risk of violence particularly those exposed to violence by identifying them early and providing services early, you can prevent a lot of problems. so the long-term prevention is important in addition to the gun safety and mental health. >> john: most of you what mentioned are favored by the majority of american citizens and the majority of nra members. you used evidence-based

solutions. house republicans might say it is based on an ideology. how would you counter that? >> you have to show some research-based analysis that shows the effectiveness of programs ax lot of good-sounding initiatives don't work. many are even counter productive. we need to make sure there is a research basis, an evidence basis for the initiative. that's why we use the term evidence base so we don't end up with a lot of slogans and sound bytes. >> john: it is almost like they're demanding common sense with a background check. here in new york, of course, governor cuomo passed the toughest gun laws in the country. what's going on in your home state, my mom's home state of virginia? >> unfortunately we're going in the opposite direction. about 20 years ago under the direction of governor wilder, we passed a one gun a month. you can only buy one gun a month and unfortunately, last year, that was repealed. so we're going unfortunately in the wrong direction in

virginia. we need tougher laws to make sure that the wrong people don't have access to firearms. >> john: has the newtown massacre shifted the guns debate enough so the president's proposals could pass the house? the latest abc news "washington post" poll shows strong majorities do support his ideas but 30 days later we're hearing things like senator harry reid saying he doesn't think the support could be there for an assault weapons ban. does it seem like 30 days might be the expiration date for the public will to make legislation happen? >> i think there's a sense around the country that unlike other situations where nothing was done and there are no repercussions, in this case, with 20 school children and six adults murdered at one time, there is a sense that something needs to be done. i don't think congress should sit up and do nothing. i think we have to do something. it has to be a comprehensive approach. not just one idea. if you take a comprehensive

approach evidence-based approach, where your ideas have some research and evidence basis to show that they'll be effective, i think we take that approach using evidence you get away from the allegations that it is just all ideology or all one thing or another. you have a basis for showing that this will actually work. if you get away from that, if you start promoting things for which there is no evidence, you stand the risk of being accused of just ideology without any effectiveness. >> john: right. like trickle down. one last question, i know we're short on time. i thank you. you were in congress back in '94 when congress passed an assault weapons ban supported by presidents ford and reagan. president clinton pushed as part of a broader anti-crime package. even rudy giuliani supported it against the will of his party. will president obama's have a better chance of passing? >> if it is in one package the

entire package could rise or fall based on one vote. i think if it is a comprehensive package, it may be shifting majorities. i know in the crime bill, there was strong support and strong opposition for a lot of different items but there is a majority across the board, i think if we had broken that up, it would not have had the adverse political effect. many people believe they lost their seats in congress because of the crime bill. because of the assault weapons ban. others did not vote for it because they had death penalties and other problems. i think there was a shifting majority for all of those so that those who oppose one or another wouldn't have to step up and vote and risk their seat for the package. i believe there's a lot that we can pass. we should pass everything we can. i would be a little leery about having all one package that could rise or fall on the basis of one vote. that's a decision that's going to have to be made by

leadership, whether or not there will be one package or whether there will be a series of bills. in any case, i believe it ought to be a comprehensive response to the newtown tragedy so that we can come up with something that actually works. evidence-based comprehensive. >> john: congressman bobby scott of virginia. many thanks for sharing your time with us tonight. >> thank you. >> john: for an activist perspective on the guns debate, i'm happy to be joined by kim russell, national director of chapter outreach for a million moms for gun control and a gun survivor herself and by jackie hilly. thank you both so much. honor to have you with us tonight. jackie, how did you get involved in gun issues? >> i came about it from a public health approach to gun violence because i had worked with the children's organization and been introduced to david hemingway who has been really the guru on the public health approach to gun violence and it made sense to me because really gun violence is a public health concern when 30,000 people are dying every year consistently

year after year, it is a major public health problem. >> john: kim, was it your encounter with real gun violence that led you down the route to be an activist? >> yes. i was a victim of gun violence in 1999. i lost a dear friend. >> john: please explain what happened. >> we were in atlanta. we were going out on a date. columbine had just happened. he was a schoolteacher. and we talked all night about columbine. how not to let this happen again. we were devastated. then we went to a show and we were robbed. he was killed and i was shot. i survived. and since then, i've always wanted to do something like this but i just never quite had the courage but now i'm a mother and when newtown happened, i felt i had no choice. it seemed like i had to do something. >> john: i do hope our legislators feel the same way as you. i thank you both for your service. jackie what, so far is the most important proposal you've heard coming out of the white house? >> well, i think fixing the gun

check system is one of the most important things we can do because if we have a good, operating gun check system where we give a background check to every person who purchases a gun in this country no matter where it happened, who conducts it, the people who would be getting guns and the very definition of law-abiding citizens. the big rallying cry for the opposition to this. so if that's fully enacted and the system itself has the most current data available to all of the states that is a situation which would change dramatically what we're facing now because i think you know, 40% of the guns that are sold in this country and that's just an estimate because really who knows for sure. 40% of those guns are going to people we have absolutely no idea who they're going to. once the sale is made, they're gone forever. we have no way of tracing them. we have no way of knowing who is getting them after the first sale. it is critical for us to take information on that first sale to make sure the people who are getting them are the kind of

people that we want to have guns or will permit to have guns. >> john: we're talking about the gun show loophole where you don't need to have a background check and private sales between friends or relatives. if someone wants to sell a gun to a friend. that would be a great way to nab criminals if their guns aren't registered. kim, what about you? what would you like to see come out of the white house in their proposals tomorrow? >> i would like to have background checks for all sales. internet sales can't require background checks either. so that would be really helpful. we also want to ban assault weapons and limit ammunition. we don't want any ammunition magazines of more than ten rounds. cuomo was amazing. he said seven. i'm so grateful to be a new yorker now. to be here. i feel much safer. hopefully he's going to set the standard for the country. maybe everybody will do this. >> john: i would love to see it. jackie, do you think that newtown really was the tipping point for this nation? that the american people are finally fed up? and do you think that's enough

to move congress along? >> i think newtown was the tipping point and i really think that the american people are horrified that -- and just can't stand on the sidelines and say okay, this is going to happen. 2012 was the worst year ever for mass shootings. we had seven mass shootings this year and i think people watched the news. they see what's happening. not again is what everybody's saying. and we should do something about it. so i do think it's important. i think governor cuomo really made an outstanding -- being in the forefront of the country and saying it can be done. the nra spends more money on new york state elections than anywhere else in the country. so this is another resounding defeat for the nra. just like the last round of congressional elections the boogie man of the nra that all of the congress members are responding to is no longer alive and well. >> john: kim tell me a bit about the march on washington that you're a part of and how people can learn more about it.

>> we'll be cosponsoring the march in washington. it will be on january 26th. we have had a large following there. we'll have some great speakers. we just want to be known. president obama said after newtown, it is going to take regular folks to help us pass these laws and that's who we are. we're moms, dads, grandparents, with with grandparents -- we're here to be the grassroots organization. we're not going to stop until it's done. we're not scared. and actually, 94% of the nra members want background checks. >> john: they do. >> to me, it is not political. it is just common sense. >> john: common sense and democracy. is there a web site where people can learn more about the million moms march? >> onemillion moms.org. >> john: thank you for joining us this evening. kim russell is national director

for one million moms for gun control and jackie hilly director of new yorkers for gun violence. i hope we're all very pleased by what our government does in the weeks and months ahead. okay. quick question about the debt ceiling. why not? now. (vo) she gets the comedians laughing and the thinkers >>ok, so there's wiggle room in the ten commandments, that's what you're saying. you would rather deal with ahmadinejad than me. >>absolutely. >> and so would mitt romney. (vo) she's joy behar. >>and the best part is that current will let me say anything. what the hell were they thinking?

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current's morning news block. >>we'll do our best to carry the flag from 6 to 9 every morning. >>liberal and proud of it. >> john: before we could even shake off our collective fiscal cliff fatigue it's now back to the doldrums of the debt ceiling debate, my friends. yes, unfortunately, if you prefer your doomsday scenarios few and far between then washington, d.c. is no place for you. the newest wound that republicans in congress are considering inflicting upon ourselves and our fragile economy is defaulting on our financial obligations by refusing to raise the debt ceiling, something they agreed to rather effortlessly 25 times under george w. bush and ronald reagan. this would be the decision that would be only as disastrous as it is profoundly unnecessary.

because the truth is, as president obama noted yesterday the u.s. economy's actually poised for a good year if only congress can get out of the way. i kind of paraphrased that last part. now that we know we're not going to be minting a trillion dollar coin, we need something different. a bill that would repeal the debt ceiling altogether. it is an idea supported publicly by alan greenspan and times man of the year last year, ben bernanke. it is an idea that could prevent lawmakers from lurching our country from one crisis to the next just to ring out some short-term gain until another republican sits in the oval office. that's why it's probably an idea that this congress has no chance of making law. but joining me now is one of the sponsors of the bill to repeal the debt ceiling altogether, democratic congressman from vermont and a member of the committee on house oversight and government reform, representative peter welch. sir, thank you so much for joining us tonight. >> good to be with you.

>> john: right on. let me ask you just for starters, why does the debt ceiling exist in the first place. does it serve any function? >> it doesn't. essentially, the one function it does serve is members of congress can be hypocritical. they can vote for spending. and then pretend a year later when the bill comes due that they don't have to pay for it. and berate the excessive spending. it is really a tool for constant and unrelenting hypocrisy by congress. if we pass a budget, when we do that's what affects the debt ceiling. if you pass a budget and there's a trillion dollars that will be spent on iraq and you have no way to pay for it, the debt becomes due and you've got to pay that bill. so the debt ceiling has been abused frankly by both parties but in the past, it has been about hypocrisy and grandstanding. now it is actually about defaulting on our bills. so congressman nadler and i and others are saying hey look, it is time to be straight with the

american people. if we vote for a budget that requires cuts or revenues, then at the moment we vote for the budge set when we have to take responsibility for the consequences. >> john: sir, yesterday in the president's press conference, he mentioned how an spp downgrade he blamed it on the republicans of congress. is the g.o.p. really willing to totally default on our obligations? it seems like they're weakening on that argument that the debt ceiling gives them leverage. "wall street journal," national review lisa merckowski, even john boehner seem to be budging a bit on this. >> the republicans in congress are in two camps. those who will vote no and those who will vote hell, no. i'm afraid they have a nigh eave attitude of the consequences of using this tactic. it is a tactic of economic mass destruction. it is also ineffective. they may succeed in using their

power to default on the debt and the question for them is whether they'll have the restraint not to use it. but if they do, there is going to be a ferocious market reaction that will pistol whip congress into doing the obligation that america has that's to pay its bills. it is a bad tactic that will do an immense amount of damage and won't succeed. but unfortunately, when i talked to my republican colleagues, they have enormous confidence this is "the leverage they need." >> john: to never be elected again. let me throw you out the number one argument i get from my republican loved ones. what about the argument that president obama himself voted against raising the debt ceiling under president bush when he was a senator back in 2006? >> yeah, he regrets it. he acknowledges that was part of the grandstanding approach. because what both parties have done in the past is use the debt ceiling as an opportunity to basically vilify and castigate the economic policies of whoever the president was.

and that's -- it is one thing to use it as a tool to try to make a point. it is another thing to actually plunge us into default. the president regrets it. steny hoyer our whip in the democratic side acknowledges that he should not have voted against the debt ceiling increases when he did it on occasion. so it's really time for both sides to renounce the use of this tactic which is really so destructive to our economy and renounce it altogether. the republicans can use it now because they have the majority. the democrats should renounce using it in the future as well. >> john: to say nothing of the fact it is one thing to vote against it when you're squandering a bill clinton surplus on tax cuts for those who don't need tax cuts pre-2008. it is another thing when you're trying to climb out of a recession. >> that's exactly right. there is a lot of misunderstanding about the debt ceiling. most americans think the debt ceiling is congress giving itself permission to spend more

money. when they understand it is about do we default on our bills they say what? you're not going to pay your bills? that's what the debt ceiling is about. one of the things i advocated was the restoration of the gephardt rule that said when congress voted for a budget, let's say it voted for the iraq war that cost a trillion dollars, then at the moment that they voted for that program the debt ceiling would be adjusted up or down to reflect the budget they just voted for. that's what most americans would do. so this debt ceiling is all about hypocrisy. it is all about pretending that we have an option about paying our bills. by the way, a lot of the bills we have to pay are things i was adamantly opposed to. i didn't want to go to war in iraq. i didn't want to have nation building in afghanistan. i thought the bush tax cuts were ill-advised but i'm a member of congress. america committed itself to those and i've got to stand by paying the obligations that have been incurred.

>> john: congressman, i want to congratulate you on being a real fiscal conservative. congressman peter welch democrat of vermont, thank you. i hope you'll come back. >> thank you. >> john: thank you. tonight's quickie award category is the i'm not a racist but award and it's coming up next. mel brooks and carl reiner. and for once i won't even try to get a word in edgewise.

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their kids to, in glenn's words be deprogrammed. i say bring it on, glenn! afterall man, you've conquered radio, tv, internet. you have chased away more sponsors than lindsay lohan did at betty ford. america is ready for the glenn beck version of disneyland with rides like the glenn beck emotional roller coaster where kids can cry and scream and cry and scream until roger ailes fires them. image an chalkboard created community on the premise of ayn rand combined with a christer with shep that ignores his teachings. imagine having your kids deprogrammed by glenn beck. where all of that annoying education can be sucked out and your kids can be taught the things that really matter like how the deficit's been destroying the country since january 21, 2009. how zor owes is a hungarian term for class traitor and